Minutes of the HERA-III Steering Committee Meeting 20.09.02 Present: H. Abramowicz, A. Caldwell, T. Greenshaw, E. Kinney, M. Klein, G. Mallot, S. Levonian, D. Ryckbosch, R. Yoshida Agenda: - Discussion of physics goals, accelerator requirements, detector requirements - Discussion of institutional interests, project scale, timeline. - Discussion on next steps, how to approach outside community, how to approach DESY directorate - Organization of workshop to work out detector/accelerator issues - Outside groups which should be contacted for interest - Composition of steering committee ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Physics goals, Accelerator&Detector requirements Three main physics programs were discussed: 1) Precision measurements of unpolarized eN scattering This includes measurements of F2,FL,FD in the transition region, measurements of VM and DVCS without p-dissoc and with the goal of extracting the t-distribution up to |t|>1 GeV2, the comparison of neutron and proton structure function to compare the sea quark distributions, extraction of PDF's at high-x and precision measurement of alpha_s, and the study of shadowing, in particular via diffraction. Light nuclei would also be proposed to understand the development of the parton densities with A and to search for new effects (e.g., saturation). 2) Polarized ep and ed in collider mode This includes extraction of the PDF's in polarized eN scattering at small x, studying diffraction and heavy flavor production from polarized targets, and looking for electroweak spin phenomena at high Q2. 3) High luminosity fixed target spin physics This would be an extension of the HERMES program, and could feature further studies of transversity and DVCS (generalized parton distributions). In the discussion, it was generally agreed that 1,2 could be part of one proposal, whereas 3 should be a separate proposal. 2. would be described as an option to continue after program 1 was completed. The complementarity to the EIC was discussed. The belief was expressed that HERA-III would come earlier, and would have a higher CM energy. The EIC would be able to run heavier ions, and would likely have a much higher luminosity. The programs are therefore seen as complementary. A further point made was that we should have an understanding of what will be achieved by the end of HERA-II, to clearly differentiate the HERA-III possibilities. The need for full DESY support was stressed for success of the program(s), in particular for the polarized collider mode of running, since there will be many machine issues to work out. Among these are a polarized source, a means of maintaining the polarization during ramping, and the ability to vary the polarization quickly (alternate bunches ?). The most pressing HERA requirement is the injector for HERA. It was proposed to study a new injector design at the upcoming workshop (see below). Other HERA requirements include the desire to run with light nuclei, and the coexistence with new detectors designed for full acceptance electron and photon measurements. Also, the luminosities achievable for different beam energies should be reviewed. The required luminosity for the different modes of running will be set out in the workshop. It was not clear how much of the existing detectors could be taken over for the precision measurements. Presumably a new electron measurement system will be needed to reach the precision levels required for a measurement of FL over a wide kinematic range. The requirement to measure VM and DVCS at high t places constraints on p-dissoc tagging and on the quality of the energy and angle measurements for electrons and photons. There should also be a nuclear remnant measuring device for running on D and light nuclei. The polarized program will additionally need precision measurements of the electron and proton beam polarizations. The fixed target community will have its own dedicated session at the workshop to study requirements for such a program. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Discussion of institutional interests, project scale, timeline. It is clear that the future prospects of HERA-III are closely tied to TESLA developments. This is the case for any DESY participation, as well as for the participation of some experimental physics groups. It was proposed to design the detector required to fulfil the physics programs outlined above, with initially no shortcuts. Various staging or scaling back scenarios can be worked out later depending on developments. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Discussion on next steps, how to approach outside community, how to approach DESY directorate We first reviewed discussions with members of the Directorate (Wagner, Klanner, Trines). We are encouraged to submit a Letter of Intent next spring for evaluation by the PRC in May. Upon successful review, a full proposal would then be requested by the end of 2003. The question of the injector for HERA came up. Trines has said that DESY would solve the HERA injection problem if the HERA-III program would become a reality. Nevertheless, it was thought useful to start a study group on alternatives for HERA injection. The Directorate will be kept aware of our actions, e.g., planning of Workshop. We discussed producing a few slides describing the project which could be shown in various talks. Tim Greenshaw agreed to set up a common WWW page where we could collect materials (the page already exists !). A separate WWW page will be set up for the workshop which will be linked to the HERA-III page. Funding issues were also discussed. The funding for hadronic physics is difficult, in part because it resides somewhere between nuclear and particle physics. The European program Framework Program 6 was discussed as a possible source. Tim Greenshaw agreed to investigate this possibility with Dirk Ryckbosch (?) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Organization of workshop to work out detector/accelerator issues We agreed to hold a workshop at MPI this fall. The dates Dec 15-17 were picked during the meeting. However, this later turned out not to work. The dates are now set as DEC 18-20. The timeline would be as follows: Dec 17 arrival in Munich Dec 18 AM review talks Dec 18 PM working group sessions Dec 19 AM,PM working group sessions Dec 19 PPM Steering committee meeting Dec 20 AM working group sessions Dec 20 PM summary talks For the review talks, we envisage: (P)Review of Unpolarized Measurements thru 2006 P. Newman (P)Review of Polarized Measurements thru 2006 K. Rith (TBC) Future Unpolarized Measurements U. Katz (TBC) Future Polarized Measurements A. Deshpande (TBC) The talks would be 30' + 10' discussion For the working groups, we chose: A. Precision lepton-nucleon measurements conveners: H. Abramowicz + NN B. Physics with eA Collisions conveners: S. Levonian + S. Schlenstedt (TBC) C. Physics at Polarized eN Collider conveners: E. Kinney + U. Stoesslein (TBC) D. Polarized eN Fixed Target conveners: NN + NN E. Accelerator Study Group conveners: D. Trines (TBC) We proposed to announce the Workshop in the CERN Courier and via E-mail lists. The Workshop would be by invitation. Interested parties would be asked to contact the working group conveners. We have to limit the enrollment to about 60, because of space limitations and efficiency limitations. A workshop web page will be developed with Travel, Hotel, Contact, program, etc. information. We then discussed the timing and location of a second workshop. D. Ryckbosch volunteered to host it in Gent sometime in the first two weeks in March 2003. We also reserved the week of March 24th for writing the letter of intent. Possible locations are Erice (R. Yoshida will contact), Ringberg (A. Caldwell will contact) and Trento (??) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Outside groups which should be contacted for interest We made the following list of names/institutes to contact Name Institute Contact Person A. Bodek Rochester A. Caldwell J. Ciborowski Warsaw H. Abramowicz B. Cole Columbia A. Caldwell M. Danilov ITEP M. Klein A. Deshpande BNL A. Caldwell R. Devenish Oxford A. Caldwell T. Doyle Glasgow T. Greenshaw F. Eisele Heidelberg H. Abramowicz M. Erdmann Karlsruhe M. Klein J. Feltesse Saclay M. Klein C. Gillaut+ Saclay H. Abramowicz E. Hughes CalTech A. Caldwell A. Levy Tel Aviv H. Abramowicz J. Lichtenstadt Tel Aviv H. Abramowicz K. Long Imperial T. Greenshaw P. Marage Bruxelles M. Klein J. Pilcher Chicago M. Klein S. Rock Massachussetts E. Kinney H. Schellman Northwestern A. Caldwell P. Schleper Hamburg M. Klein J. Terron Madrid A. Caldwell B. Wyslouch MIT R. Milner (?) xx Liverpool T. Greenshaw xx Dubna S. Levonian We are all encouraged to come up with more names :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Composition of steering committee It was decided to ask V. Hughes to join the Steering Committee. A. Caldwell agreed to call. We also discussed when would be appropriate to ask F. Willeke to join. A. Caldwell will contact R. Klanner. T. Greenshaw has agreed to be secretary for the Steering Committee. And finally, we had a lively discussion on possible names for a collaboration over dinner, with no clear results. H. Abramowicz has since proposed PENELOPE, which has met enthusiastic support !